Difference between revisions of "Video Playback Slightly Too Fast"
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People in Europe are taking NTSC movies, and encoding them digitally, converting them to PAL, and in doing so, are causing the movies to be distorted in both time and pitch. When these distorted movies are shared via the Internet, such as on bittorrent, they end up back in the hands of people in North America. Some people don't realize they've collected and are sharing distorted media, and the bad movie files continue to propagate. What these European encoders should be doing is converting them digitally to the proper NTSC format, then using a media player that can play both PAL and NTSC. This would be much better than polluting the Internet and bittorrents with distorted "PAL Speedup" movies and video media. | People in Europe are taking NTSC movies, and encoding them digitally, converting them to PAL, and in doing so, are causing the movies to be distorted in both time and pitch. When these distorted movies are shared via the Internet, such as on bittorrent, they end up back in the hands of people in North America. Some people don't realize they've collected and are sharing distorted media, and the bad movie files continue to propagate. What these European encoders should be doing is converting them digitally to the proper NTSC format, then using a media player that can play both PAL and NTSC. This would be much better than polluting the Internet and bittorrents with distorted "PAL Speedup" movies and video media. | ||
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| + | Note: English-language films from PAL territories on DVD discs have the PAL speedup problem too. Ripping from a source like this results in a digital video file with PAL speedup. VHS tapes sold in PAL territories of American movies also are sold as-is with PAL speedup. | ||
Bittorrents today are filled with a mix of properly encoded media, and distorted crap. It isn't uncommon to see highly rated downloads which are actually suffering from PAL Speedup. People doing encoding that lack the knowledge to do it correctly are the culprit. Movies suffering from PAL Speedup need to be rated low, and eradicated. | Bittorrents today are filled with a mix of properly encoded media, and distorted crap. It isn't uncommon to see highly rated downloads which are actually suffering from PAL Speedup. People doing encoding that lack the knowledge to do it correctly are the culprit. Movies suffering from PAL Speedup need to be rated low, and eradicated. | ||
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<big>A lot of bad video is being distributed by people who do not know how to properly encode. It goes unnoticed since the speed difference is so slight. However, it is bad quality video. </big> | <big>A lot of bad video is being distributed by people who do not know how to properly encode. It goes unnoticed since the speed difference is so slight. However, it is bad quality video. </big> | ||
| − | [ | + | * [[Compensate for PAL Speedup in Digital Video]] - Guide with various methods to deal with PAL video that has speed-up as a result of telecine process. |
Have you been annoyed by PAL-encoded movies playing a little faster than usual, where the music's tempo is wrong and everyone talks a little faster? | Have you been annoyed by PAL-encoded movies playing a little faster than usual, where the music's tempo is wrong and everyone talks a little faster? | ||
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''The NTSC standard is 29.97 fps, and PAL is 25 fps. And if this hint is talking about what I assume it is, not all PAL videos are affected, and it has nothing directly to do with VLC (although the workaround here should work, in principle). The problem is that theatrical movies are normally filmed at 24 fps, not 25 or 30. A process called 3:2 pulldown (too lengthy to go into the details here) converts such movies to the nearly 30 fps rate required on NTSC systems, and the playback speed ends up very close to the original. On PAL systems, the common approach is to simply speed up the movie from 24 to 25 fps, shortening the playback time. Sometimes the soundtrack is processed to prevent the sound from raising in pitch, but that varies with the movie.'' | ''The NTSC standard is 29.97 fps, and PAL is 25 fps. And if this hint is talking about what I assume it is, not all PAL videos are affected, and it has nothing directly to do with VLC (although the workaround here should work, in principle). The problem is that theatrical movies are normally filmed at 24 fps, not 25 or 30. A process called 3:2 pulldown (too lengthy to go into the details here) converts such movies to the nearly 30 fps rate required on NTSC systems, and the playback speed ends up very close to the original. On PAL systems, the common approach is to simply speed up the movie from 24 to 25 fps, shortening the playback time. Sometimes the soundtrack is processed to prevent the sound from raising in pitch, but that varies with the movie.'' | ||
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source: http://superuser.com/questions/320127/converting-movie-from-25fps-pal-back-to-24fps-without-recompressing | source: http://superuser.com/questions/320127/converting-movie-from-25fps-pal-back-to-24fps-without-recompressing | ||
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Latest revision as of 16:39, 29 December 2016
The United States, like the rest of North America, use a video frame rate standard called NTSC. NTSC has a frame rate of 24 frames per second, of 24fps. PAL has a frame rate of 25fps. This relates to the electrical alternating current frequencies native to these regions. The U.S. is 60Hz while Europe is mostly 50Hz.
In NTSC television the rate is effectively slowed to 23.976 FPS (24×1000÷1001 to be exact), and when transferred to PAL or SECAM it is sped up to 25 FPS.
The difference in frame rate is causing problems in the digital video world. People in the NTSC world are finding videos that seem fine at first, but are subtly playing slightly too fast, and the pitch of all sound, including everyone's voice is slightly too high.
This issue has been called "PAL Speedup." Pal Speedup describes the increase of 4.2% in pitch and speed that results from the conversion of film (or NTSC-TV) to the european PAL format. This effect will cause the PAL version of a 2 hour movie will play in 1 hour 55 minutes.
- PAL Speedup
- PAL 4% Speedup
People in Europe are taking NTSC movies, and encoding them digitally, converting them to PAL, and in doing so, are causing the movies to be distorted in both time and pitch. When these distorted movies are shared via the Internet, such as on bittorrent, they end up back in the hands of people in North America. Some people don't realize they've collected and are sharing distorted media, and the bad movie files continue to propagate. What these European encoders should be doing is converting them digitally to the proper NTSC format, then using a media player that can play both PAL and NTSC. This would be much better than polluting the Internet and bittorrents with distorted "PAL Speedup" movies and video media.
Note: English-language films from PAL territories on DVD discs have the PAL speedup problem too. Ripping from a source like this results in a digital video file with PAL speedup. VHS tapes sold in PAL territories of American movies also are sold as-is with PAL speedup.
Bittorrents today are filled with a mix of properly encoded media, and distorted crap. It isn't uncommon to see highly rated downloads which are actually suffering from PAL Speedup. People doing encoding that lack the knowledge to do it correctly are the culprit. Movies suffering from PAL Speedup need to be rated low, and eradicated.
more background and references
Best described by a user on AfterDawn forums: "Anyone notice this problem? It seems to be with some xvid or divx videos I've downloaded. The speed difference is so slight that you really can't tell until you watch the original and hear that the theme song is in a lower key and the voices are lower."
source: AfterDawn > Forums > Video playback problems > video plays slightly too fast
Files playing at 25fps but were filmed at 24fps will cause this problem. For European PAL TVs the film is simply sped up the 4.16%. The sound is also sped up and is a half-step too high. People are not encoding the files properly, and the difference is just too slight to notice.
Judging by the running times, I would guess the source was probably 24fps film. The 25 fps AVI probably came from a PAL DVD where the film is sped up to 25 fps. The 25 fps AVI retained that frame rate and probably has smooth, though slightly fast playback (compared to the original film).
Film can be shot at either 24fps or 25fps for PAL. There are two ways to transfer the film to tape.
Telecine A: 25 FPS frame-for-frame from the negative or workprint. Either film that originated at 24 FPS or 25 FPS can be transferred this way. If the film was shot at 25 FPS, there is no modification in the playrate. If the film was shot at 24 FPS, it is being played 4.166% faster.
Telecine B: 24 FPS adding a field at the 12th and 24th film frame (24 FPS film is cine-expanded to 25 frames). Film shot at 24 FPS is played at that rate with an additional frame generated in the telecine process so one second of film still plays at that duration on the PAL tape.
A lot of bad video is being distributed by people who do not know how to properly encode. It goes unnoticed since the speed difference is so slight. However, it is bad quality video.
- Compensate for PAL Speedup in Digital Video - Guide with various methods to deal with PAL video that has speed-up as a result of telecine process.
Have you been annoyed by PAL-encoded movies playing a little faster than usual, where the music's tempo is wrong and everyone talks a little faster?
If you have VLC, here's how to fix it:
Open VLC. Go to the 'VLC' menu and select 'Preferences…' In the radio buttons in the lower-left corner of the window, change 'Basic' to 'All'. Click on 'Input / Codecs' in the left-hand side list. In the right-hand side frame look for 'Playback speed' and change it to 0.96 (use a comma if your system uses that as the decimal separator). Click on 'Audio' in the left-hand side list. In the right-hand side frame disable 'Enable time stretching audio'. Click the 'Save' button on the lower-right corner of the window. Quit and relaunch VLC.
Here is a command line switch example using VLC:
"C:\Program Files\VideoLAN\vlc.exe" "c:\palvideo.wmv" --no-audio-time-stretch --rate=0.96
The NTSC standard is 29.97 fps, and PAL is 25 fps. And if this hint is talking about what I assume it is, not all PAL videos are affected, and it has nothing directly to do with VLC (although the workaround here should work, in principle). The problem is that theatrical movies are normally filmed at 24 fps, not 25 or 30. A process called 3:2 pulldown (too lengthy to go into the details here) converts such movies to the nearly 30 fps rate required on NTSC systems, and the playback speed ends up very close to the original. On PAL systems, the common approach is to simply speed up the movie from 24 to 25 fps, shortening the playback time. Sometimes the soundtrack is processed to prevent the sound from raising in pitch, but that varies with the movie.
AGKnot request: Now how bout those pesky PAL DVDs
Convering FILM to PAL without 4% speed-up (frame/field blending?)
24fps NTSC films are sped up to 25fps when converted to PAL. The audio is sped up with the video so there will be a change in pitch. The speed difference is 4% which results in the PAL disc having a shorter duration, but all frames are still there.
Reclock
"For reference, fixing this nonsense is easily accomplished on playback (on a PC anyway) by using ReClock."
(using reclock is an ugly patch, not a good solution)
The following is an excellent discussion on the topic:
Fast dirty method with VirtualDub:
- File -> Open AVI File.
- Video -> Frame Rate... in Frame Rate Conversion section enable Convert To FPS and set 23.976 or 25.
- Video -> Compression... select compression codec and settings (Xvid, target quantizer 3?)
- File -> Save as AVI.
The result will be a little jerky.
source: Forum Video Video Conversion Changing AVI from 29fps to 25fps
Doom9's Forum > Announcements and Chat > General Discussion > PAL and NTSC running times - what a spin-out!
Movies or television shows that were originally 24fps (as all movies, and most U.S. television shows are), but have been converted to 25fps for PAL playblack.
The conversion of 24fps source material to 25fps is pretty simple:
- speed up the playback rate by 1.0466%
This has the effect of turning a 2h 20m movie into a 2h 14m 24s movie. It also has the undesirable side-effect of increasing the pitch by a full note. This gives everyone speaking a chimpmunk quality.
