Difference between revisions of "Talk:Enfield No 2 Mk I"

Latest revision as of 16:28, 27 September 2023

There never was a military ".38-200" round

There never was a military ".38-200" round. That designation was a Kynock one for their commercial version of the 200gr lead bulleted "Cartridge, S.A. Ball, Revolver, .380-in Mk I". The Mk I was made obsolescent in 1937 when the Mk II round of the same name was introduced with a 178 gr cupro-nickel jacketed bullet.

British 38/200 a 200 grain projectile moving 620 ft/s. Most 38 S&W cartridges are around 158 grains and move around 750 ft/s.

Missouri Bullet Company sells .361" diameter 145 grain cast projectiles that are ideal for reloading 38 S&W.

.38/200 designation

The British continued to use the .38/200 designation even though they changed to a different 178-grain bullet in 1938 and, during the war, went on to use American-made Smith & Wesson Victory models in .38 S&W as well as the Webley Mk IV .38/200

new foresights were issued to compensate

The Enfield No.2 Mk I was designed for use with the Cartridge S.A. Ball Revolver .380 inch Mk. I and Mk. Iz, a deviation of the .38 Smith & Wesson cartridge, also known as the .38/200. It had a 200 gr (13 g). unjacketed round-nose, lead bullet of .359 inch diameter that developed a muzzle velocity of 620–650 ft/s (190–200 m/s).

Just prior to the outbreak of the Second World War, British authorities became concerned that the soft unjacketed lead bullet used in the 380/200 might be considered as violating the Hague Convention of 1899 governing deforming or 'explosive bullets'. A new .38 loading was introduced for use in combat utilizing a 178-grain (11.5 g), gilding-metal-jacketed lead bullet; new foresights were issued to compensate for the new cartridge's ballistics and change to the point of aim.

The new cartridge was accepted into Commonwealth Service as "Cartridge, Pistol, .380 Mk IIz", firing a 178 - 180 grain (11.7 g) full metal jacket round-nose bullet. The 380/200 Mk I lead bullet cartridge was continued in service, originally restricted to training and marksmanship practice.

However, after the outbreak of war, supply exigencies forced British authorities to use both the 380/200 Mk I and the .380 Mk IIz loadings interchangeably in combat. U.S. ammunition manufacturers such as Winchester-Western supplied 380/200 Mk I cartridges to British forces throughout the war.

wrong ammo: .38 special will not work

the .38 special cartridge is not only longer than the cylinder will allow, but the brass is a smaller diameter than the .38/200 of the Enfield. the projectile is also .004 smaller in diameter and would not engage the rifling. .38/200 Enfield is the exact same as .38S&W which is available

380 Enfield No. 2 Revolver, by Mark Stamps and Ian Skennerton

book on this revolver

   Publisher ‏ : ‎ Greenhill Books; Edition Unstated (January 1, 1993)
   Language ‏ : ‎ English
   Paperback ‏ : ‎ 126 pages
   ISBN-10 ‏ : ‎ 1853671398
   ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-1853671395

mayralphie of Maryland S/N table

Table with revisions:

1929-1931 1-A Prefix
1932 A-B
1933 B-C
1934 C-D
1935 D-E
1936 E
1937 E-F
1938 F
1939 F-H
1940 H,I,J,K,L
1941 L,M,N,O,P
1942 Q,R,S,T,U,V
1943 V,W,X,Y,Z,ZA,ZB
1944 ZB,ZC,ZD,ZE,ZF,ZG,ZH
1945 ZH,ZI,ZJ

mayralphie additional comments from forum

There are always guns that will not conform to this table. In the "O" prefix guns, 1941 production, I found several guns with "42" dates that should be "41" dated. Enfield production was pretty consistant but these flyers do exist. In early production the barrel dates are usually the same year as the frame date or one year later. Example; 1934 frame date "34" or "35" barrel date. Several examples have surfaced with barrel dates one year before the frame date. Example; 1937 frame date "36" dated barrel, however these appear to be rare. The Enfield logo was dropped in 1941 somewhere in the high "M" through "O" prefix with the DI* mark being used after. Mk1 pistols were produced till 1939 when the Mk1* came into use. Many of the earlier Enfield Mk1 were later converted to mk1*. The Mk 1* was dropped in 1942 in the "S" or "T" prefix and the Mk1** was used till the wars end. Other small changes took place. In 1941 the barrel date mark was changed from horizontal to vertical and the back strap grooves were dropped sometime in 1944. Several guns have also been seen that had white painted numbers on the frame with heavy black paint finish. These guns all had frame and barrel dates that were farther apart then normally seen. example 1941 frame date "45" dated barrel. These guns all appear to have come from the same source and one gun was observed with an R.P.I. stamp on the cylinder. This mark appears to be from the Pakistan military and could mean these guns were part of the shippment to Pakistan in 1956-1957 discussed in Shennerton's book. FTR (Factory Through Repair) guns have dates of 52,53 or 54 with some of the barrels being re-dated to the FTR date. I have not seen any other FTR dates on these guns. Some pistols will display unit issue marks stamped in various places on the pistol. Marks onserved so far: RAF, RCAF, B2RE 24, 2SHROP, SB B, RPI, SOU 26.56.17, 1RHA,KBY 17, PH 527. Non of these marks are cylinder steel lot markings.

earlier No2MkI in original non FTR

all of these are the earlier No2MkI in original non FTR

Serial "F" both frame and barrel 1930, same as pictured in book pages 13, 44 not the same gun with adj. sight, gun came with a complete 22 set up as pictued on middle and bottom pictures of page 43 mine has a brass barrel nut
Serial 43X no prefix frame 1930 barrel 31
Serial A16X frame 1931 barrel 1932
Serial A228X frame 31 barrel 1932 marked b/strap Unit B 2RE, 24
Serial A654Xboth frame and barrel 1932, cover gun on Enfield book
Serial B381X frame 1932 barrel 1933
Serial B749X frame and barrel both 1933
Serial B9278 both frame and barrel 1933, gun is a cutaway as pictured on page 26 appeared to be new when so made
Serial B980X both frame and barrel 1933
Serial C7352 frame and barrel 1934, RCAF marked on frame

All of above guns have MKI grips.

Putting Vintage Guns to the Test

Article: Putting Vintage Guns to the Test from thefirearmblog.com

Putting Vintage Guns to the Test

Posted September 5, 2013 in Guns & Gear by Ian McCollum

...British Enfield No2 MkI* revolver (essentially identical to the Webley Mk IV). The Enfield revolver is a double action only piece, with no hammer spur or single action notch in the firing mechanism. It has a relatively light pull for a DA revolver...

...the .38/200, which is fires a 200gr bullet at 620 fps for a mere 170 ftlb of muzzle energy...

...I came away from that match with a newfound respect for the Enfield revolver. It is certainly not a high-speed-low-drag racegun, but it’s something I would rather have: a sidearm that simply does its job and works every time without any fuss. And I wouldn’t have realized that without subjecting it to a match like the 2GACM...

A Revolver Meant for Armor: The Enfield Tanker

Article: A Revolver Meant for Armor: The Enfield Tanker from guns.com by Chris Eger ??

excerpt:

The British continued to use the .38/200 designation even though they changed to a different 178-grain bullet in 1938 and, during the war, went on to use American-made Smith & Wesson Victory models in .38 S&W as well as the Webley Mk IV .38/200. While elite special operations forces such as the Commandos, Paras, and SOE used semi-autos such as Browning-Inglis Hi-Powers, Lend-Leased M1911A1s, and even Argentine Ballester Molinas, the rank-and-file Commonwealth soldier who carried a sidearm had a .38, meaning the guns ranged from Dunkirk and El Alamein to D-Day and the liberation of Singapore.